Christianity vs Islam Debate (Pt. 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYyXGcZrMQc
Throughout the debate, Ali Ataie(a Muslim) and David Wood(a Christian) mention a number of things that either defend or attack the character of Mohammad or the legitimacy of Mohammad as a true prophet. The main issues brought up were: is child marriage ever acceptable, is the trinity the truth, are the teachings of Jesus being God, crucified, or possibly tempted by Satan contradictions in the bible, are the contradictions on the earth’s age really contradictions, and is the bible anymore violent or sexual than the Quran/the Hadiths.
The Issue of Child Marriage
I’ll start with the issue of child marriage first. The reasons why it is an issue is a given to anyone with any kind of critical thinking skills, but to those who were raised in other faiths and cultures even if their cultural ways killed them they’d still preach the greatness of it.
Because of the complacency of the debater and Muslims worldwide with a 50 year old having sexual relations with a 9 year old, and because it is an important issue, this issue cannot be addressed enough.
[The prophet Mohammed] married Aisha when she was a girl six years of age and he consummated the marriage when she was nine years old. (Bukhari 63:122) Some aim to dispute this and find ways to accept the marriage by claiming she was 16, 18, or even 19 when Mohammed had sexual relations with her, but all these numbers only exist in their imaginations as the hadith clearly states that she was in fact nine when the marriage was consummated. It was also believed that the marriage was consummated after her period, which is why many claim it was permitted in Islam at the time. However, the Quran says the waiting period for those who haven’t menstruated yet is three months, so waiting 3 years or less to consummate a marriage would be permitted in Islam.
And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women – if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah – He will make for him of his matter ease. (Quran 65:4)
While there may be a minimum age placed on marriage in Muslim countries, a religion that places no minimum age on marriage can override these laws and the minimum age laws can override the law that says you cannot consummate the marriage with a girl until they start menstruating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-ffuFleMu8
Is it really ‘tradition’ that keeps child marriage alive?
In addition to these rules, some Muslims claim it is O.K. as long as the child can withstand sexual intercourse, but there is really no way of knowing which children can withstand sexual intercourse or giving birth until AFTER the damage is done. Even after it has been proven that many young girls can’t withstand sexual intercourse, pregnancy, and marriage life, it still goes on! It is hard to believe that the people in those times were too primitive or so wrapped up in their cultural practices to recognize the obvious connection between child marriage, miscarriages, psychological trauma, and premature death in children. When you continue to advocate and practice the tradition long after the tradition began, and the people of today’s culture realize the harms of the practice, it’s no longer an old cultural or religious practice that can be forgotten; it’s just carelessness. The “it was tradition” argument also won’t work because Aisha’s parents didn’t want to allow her to marry at that young age until Mohammed convinced them that Islam allows it. If it was openly accepted at that time to marry at such a young age, they wouldn’t need to be convinced.
The Child Marriage issue is now a global issue
Due to economic migration and increasing numbers of refugees pouring into Germany, “Some 1,475 minor refugees, mostly girls, have arrived in Germany already married, the majority of whom come from Syria, Afghanistan, and Iraq, an official report cited by German media says. Almost one in four are reportedly less than 14 years old.”
https://www.rt.com/news/358890-germany-refugee-children-married/
Videos & Articles on the suicides, mental, and physical instability caused by child marriage:
Children have died giving birth. Even some girls who are 12 to 15 years of age can STILL be physically too young to have sex and bare children.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQI0lQS2JGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPyS6bmECPg
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/oct/01/story-yemen-child-bride
http://www.news.com.au/world/survival-stories-of-life-as-a-child-bride/story-fndir2ev-1226754035887
One child marriage survivor claims: “What I would say to other young girls in your position is never get married at an early age. If you do you will have psychological problems like I do. I don’t get to live like other girls my age – and I never will.”
This is said by a girl married at the age of 10. I cannot image it would be any better for a 9 year old. Children want to experience their childhood and they are robbed of that right when they are forced to grow up too soon.
Child Marriage victims are known as survivors. Their lives are about survival, not thriving. Their lives are often hell and they suffer in silence. They are forced to fulfill their “duties” as wives yet they are too young to even know what that is. I cannot imagine the fear, confusion, and blank expressions child brides have when they are expected to fulfill the sexual desires of their husbands. Losing one’s virginity hurts like a SOB and I wouldn’t wish it on ANY child. I think the whole “it’s sacred and wonderful” crap is what they put in the movies to make you think the experience gives you more fuzzy feelings than pain, but that’s just crap. A grown man cannot have sex with a child and not know that they are really hurting them. If you continue, you just don’t care. I’m not surprised some are physically AND psychologically damaged from the act.
Child marriage or this “normal” tradition is also known to lead to poverty as women/girls who cannot contribute to the economy or household income continuing the endless cycle of generational poverty. There isn’t one good thing that comes out of child marriage. It’s a pointless tradition encouraged because of the depravity, willful ignorance, and lack of human empathy of man.
Why bring Mary and Joseph into this?
It’s funny Ali mentions the relationship between Mary and Joseph to show that child marriage was O.K. We don’t know for sure Mary’s age when she was pregnant with Jesus. She could’ve been anywhere from 12 to 16. Surprisingly, he chose the youngest possible age she could’ve been according to the Jewish religion’s belief of when a girl becomes a woman. Joseph was said to be in his late 30s or about 40, but there is a difference between a guy choosing a 12 year old in that time period and a guy choosing a 6 year old. What Ali does is suggest that age was just a number back then when referring to practices by Christians or Jews, but only attempts to address the methodology of it when he refers to Muslims as young as Aisha.
When you get closer to the double digits that’s when girls voluntarily start engaging in sexual activity. Even today, rarely 12 year olds but mainly 14-16 year olds are starting to have sex on their own. Meanwhile, if 6-9 year olds have had sex, whether they hit puberty or not, they were forced or coerced. A 9 year old does not have the mental capacity to give their consent to sex or marriage. Children rely on adults to know what is best for them, and sometimes adults fail them. When you deny the fact that children want to be children at that age and are traumatized by the idea of having to sexually satisfy their husbands, bare children, and act as much as a wife as older women in spite of all the evidence before you, there is a problem with your mindset.
The Islamic mindset is that when you stop playing with dolls, you’re no longer a child, but the “she was no longer playing with dolls” argument doesn’t work either because at that time kids are only allowed to play with dolls up until a certain point whereas today you can play with dolls as long as you want. That’s probably why I was playing with dolls up until I was 13 and just because I was done playing with dolls after that it doesn’t mean I was ready for marriage!
While he does shed some light on the contradictions of state laws regarding the age limit one can be for marriage, all it shows is that the few people running the state think that younger children should be allowed to marry, not that most children want to marry or that most parents in those states want their kids to get married. Our age of consent laws today are actually more accurate according to the differences in maturity in kids today although I believe the age of consent should be closer to 16 because many teens are voluntarily having sex at this age. Our culture victimizes some people for no good reason because of these laws and today’s culture even victimizes 20 year olds for being with 40-50yr olds simply because they “don’t like the way it looks”. So yea, under our crazy laws anyone can be labeled a victim or sex predator. But it’s better to be safe than sorry with 16-18yrs being the age of consent because coercion by older predators is common around the world.
Profiling Sexual Abuse Victims & Pedophiles
In spite of the argument Ali is trying to make, Aisha is not proof ALL or even MOST victims of sexual abuse are introverts. Many survivors are alive today and you wouldn’t know the difference between the survivors and the non-survivors. Some people are naturally introverts and some are naturally extroverts as the 11 year old in one of the videos speaking out about the horrors of child marriage. Thus, being an extrovert doesn’t mean they weren’t affected by the experience in a negative way. It could just mean they are more psychologically and socially developed than others their age. Just because they don’t speak out about it or become introverts because of it doesn’t mean its ok. I’ve never heard of a positive experience of a 9 year old child bride having sex with a much older male. Because “it’s tradition”, there is no one to listen to their complaints even if they do complain, so the extent of the problem is ignored. Thus, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the negative aspects of this cultural practice aren’t recorded in any scriptures.
Also, I’m not sure if there is any universal psychological profile of a pedophile. If there was people would be significantly better at figuring out who all of these predators are. As it is, most people have probably met at least one pedophile in their lives and don’t know it, and others are in denial that THEIR children could’ve ever been preyed on by pedophiles or THEIR “perfect” neighborhoods could ever contain such people. The fact is pedophiles come in a variety of ages and from a variety of backgrounds INCLUDING being among those of professional occupations and church leaders. Profiling pedophiles and their victims with such a narrow view never helps the situation.